Facebook Interview #30: Dave Davies of The Kinks/Solo/The Aschere Project

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Facebook Interview #30: Dave Davies of The Kinks/Solo/The Aschere Project (November 21, 2010)

by Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications on Sunday, November 28, 2010 at 6:39pm

Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications

For this edition of "The Facebook Interviews", I'm chatting with DAVE DAVIES discussing THE KINKS...his SOLO work...and latest projects "DAVE DAVIES KRONIKLES - MYSTICAL JOURNEY" DVD and "THE ASCHERE PROJECT".

Dave Davies created a revolutionary guitar sound in the early 60's that turned Rock'n'Roll guitar playing on its head when he slashed the speaker cone of an Elpico amp with a razor blade and fed it into a larger amp...thereby 'inventing' pregain and a raunchy guitar sound that changed the face of rock music forever. It was featured on The Kinks first major hit 'You Really Got Me' in 1964.

As lead guitarist and co-founder of The Kinks, Dave was one of the most unpredictable and original forces in rock, without whom guitar-rock styles including heavy metal and punk would have been inconceivable. A member of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, his massive guitar sounds have inspired countless bands and players. In addition to his dozens of albums with The Kinks, Dave has released a series of respected solo albums over the years.

Fans of Dave's 1996 book "Kink" already know his evolution as a musician, songwriter and recording artist has paralleled his passionate pursuit of spiritual knowledge. That aspect of his life is at the heart of a new DVD, "DAVE DAVIES KRONIKLES: MYSTICAL JOURNEY". The feature-length documentary is a personally-charged memoir of Dave’s long-running quest for enlightenment. At the same time, Dave has also released, with his son Russ Davies, The ASCHERE PROJECT - "Two Worlds"...a futuristic new concept album described as sounding like "Art Of Noise meets Pink Floyd".

Today, Roch and Dave tackle some of the big dualities...love vs. hate...old vs. new...sex, drugs & Rock'n'Roll vs. spiritual journeys.

Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications  Ok all, we're ready to start...thanks for joining us everybody...and welcome Dave! Let's start out with a couple of questions I Iike to warm up with...What was your first single and/or album that you bought as a youth with your own money? And what was the first concert you attended?   Dave Davies The first single I ever bought was “Ballad of a Teenage Queen” by Johnny Cash. My first album was a Buddy Holly album…I can’t recall now which one. The first concert I ever went to was Duane Eddy in Finsbury Park, North London…   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Who would you consider your most influential performer at a formative stage?   Dave Davies The most influential performers would have been Duane Eddy and Eddie Cochran, along with a host of other guitar players including Big Bill Broonzy, Leadbelly, and Barney Kessel…there were loads of them!   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications You were the youngest of eight...from what I understand, you were also greatly influenced by the music you absorbed at home from your parents and older sisters?   Dave Davies Yes that's right. My sisters all played piano and sang; my dad played banjo. I was greatly influenced by my family and other family members.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Dave, you were regarded as the "rocker" of the family and The Kinks...were you just as comfortable with the more "pastoral-observational" English period in the later sixties and the more "theatrical" period of the '70s Arista albums, or were you more at home, musically, with the initial rock/R&B of the earlier '60s, and then the "arena rock" successes of the '80s?   Dave Davies You have to remember that we grew up with all sorts of music, The Ventures, Doris Day, Al Bowley. As a young boy, I used to mess with the wireless and listen to Beethoven and Cesar Franck. I was ready for all things music. That was a misunderstood thing about The Kinks. No one could pigeonhole us, because our music kept changing. The record company executives wanted to play the first two or three tracks on an album...they wanted all the popular tracks to be reproduced. We always felt that wasn't a creative thing to do. One has to explore things as a musician...it could be a pastoral piece, or a rocking piece. With the right intent, it doesn't matter what sort of music it is.   Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications Terry McGregor asks: In virtually everything I read about The Kinks, they are invariably described as the "quintessential" English rock band, presumably on the heels of "The Village Green Preservation Society", etc. But isn't that tag somewhat misleading? I mean, that dirty guitar riff in "You Really Got Me" – still powerfully resonant today – is, if anything, "quintessential Rock'n'Roll" full stop, regardless of point of origin. And songs like "Dead End Street" paint a fairly nightmarish picture of life and society in general, a million miles from "Waterloo Sunset", the village pub and freshly-mown lawns. This label, I feel, undermines the music of The Kinks, who could be every bit as down and dirty as The Who or The Stones…   Dave Davies That is a poignant observation…thank you!   Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications Do you still bear some regret that more of the Kinks catalogue was not credited to "Davies/Davies" given the contributions you brought on the music side? ..and Terry Flanagan asks: Dave, do you feel you haven't received the credit you are due for inventing the power chord?   Dave Davies I do feel I should have been given more credit for my involvement and work for the Kinks. It really wasn't a one-man band.  And yeah, I invented the power chord…   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications With the success of your solo single "Death of a Clown" in 1967, there was talk of you doing a solo album. That got put on the back burner when subsequent singles fared less well on the charts. Do you believe there might have been a very different trajectory for you, if you had persevered with a first solo album in the late '60s?   Dave Davies While I enjoyed the success of “Death of a Clown”, it didn't feel right to go off on my own. I felt more at home with the Kinks. It felt more like family.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Roger Clarke asks: Which Kinks song is your favorite and which Dave Davies solo song is your favorite?   Dave Davies "My favorite Kinks song is a big contest between “Dead End Street”, “You Really Got Me”, and the ‘Phobia’ album. My favorite Dave Davies song is probably “Visionary Dreamer”. From the new album, The Aschere Project, my favorite is called “Blessed of All Nights”.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Stephanie Whitlock asks: If you could go back to any time in your life and give yourself one piece of advice like something you should do/shouldn’t do/someone to not meet/someone you must meet etc., when and what would it be?   Dave Davies I wish I would have realized when I was young...I don't know what to say....we can all look back on our lives and see things we should have done differently, but not dwell on the past. We should focus on the present, which serves to create a new future...the more we look back on the past, the more we tend to just repeat it....   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Dave, you've stated before that you began investigating spirituality at a very young age. At the same time, your 1996 book "Kinked" offers up the "sex and drugs and Rock'n'Roll excess" side of life. How did you reconcile the two at the time, and also later as you started getting more involved in your spiritual journey?   Dave Davies I started my spiritual journey the day I was born. There isn't a difference between sex and lifestyle and spirituality. The problem is to bring them into balance. In all of our lives, we have to pull in the reins, as it were, and we have to control ourselves and bring things into balance so we can explore our spiritual lives, and bring that into the fore.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Dave Corbett asks: As a survivor of "Sex, Drugs & Rock and Roll" who among the casualties do you feel would have had the greatest contribution to make if they had lived?   Dave Davies There are so many...John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Brian Jones. George Harrison fulfilled a mission, in my view, trying to inject spiritual ideas into people through his music.   Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications Dave, as all your friends and fans are aware, you suffered a major stroke in 2004 that has required years of dedicated and painstaking recovery on the physical side. What is the current state of your health? And what accommodations have you had to make, if any, in terms of your singing and guitar playing?   Dave Davies I feel fine. I did have to persevere after my illness and I feel back to strength now. You can hear my singing and performance with my new album. I did this with my son, Russell, called the Aschere Project...www.aschereproject.com   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Harald Stahl asks: Do you see yourself returning to live performance again in the near future? …and Ron Lancs asks:  Many of us hope to have the pleasure of seeing you play live again…do you have any plans to do so, and if so when?   Dave Davies Yes, I expect to do future shows and hopefully tours in the near future. Nothing is confirmed yet, but we are looking at some venues in London. I hope to be playing live fairly soon.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications You also view the stroke as a concrete spiritual experience, can you elaborate on that?   Dave Davies While I was ill, I realised that all the spiritual lessons and instruction and knowledge that i learned had stirred up to that point. My illness was a redefining of everything I believed in. All that I previously thought could be true, was actually true.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Jeremy Samuel Gluck asks: Given your interest in healing, what do you feel about the healing power of music? Even pop music? When I interviewed Brian Wilson, he spoke for a while about how music impacts the spirit.   Dave Davies Of course, music has always had the major potential for healing and serves as a vehicle for the most significant healing power of all: love. Look at all the composers who have inspired and healed people throughout the centuries because of their music…   Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications Jeremy Samuel Gluck asks: A great many people think that a major planetary shift is due very soon. Do you think your own journey is wrapped up in reaching that time having been through your musical career and then stroke? How would you sum up your mystical perception? And how do those who know you only as a musician access that?   Dave Davies Good question. I believe that that the planetary shift has been happening...and we are all involved in this change that is happening on a day to day basis. I don't believe it will happen in one swoop. It has been happening by degree over the years.   And I don't agree with 2012 indications that something is going to happen all of a sudden. The change will happen beyond 2012. We are all connected psychically and spiritually…what we think and feel will affect everyone and everything around us. For all we know, will affect time and space itself. That is why I am so energized by the Aschere Project, which is science fiction, but much of the information may be true, who knows?   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications The Aschere Project: "Two Worlds" – is quite a departure and doesn't appear on the surface to have a lot of antecedents for you. How did the project come about, and I assume it’s a case of son influencing father as much as vice-versa?   Dave Davies The Aschere Project was a joint venture and collaboration. It started off with a few musical ideas and we started to see a vision, or a movie happening. Once we got started, the story basically unfolded before us. The project was a spiritual and emotional one. It was one of the most pure collaborations I’ve been involved with. The more we helped each other, the more the music and the story grew. That is the perfect way to work – when you support others, and it is reciprocated. Something else takes over…something higher.   Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications Dave Fuglewicz asks: I’ve only listened to the preview clips of The Aschere Project and am amazed at how fresh and vital it sounds, yet still carries your unmistakable sound. I've listened to your music as a youngster from back in the 1960s to now and you've covered an incredible territory in 46 years. Will you be taking The Aschere Project forward into the future with more releases and possibly live performances in the USA?   Dave Davies Russell and I hope to take the Project further because when we were growing into the story, we realized it would be a perfect stage musical and/or film. I expect to expand the ideas into bigger and more elaborate ones, and hopefully live performance. Even with a smaller ensemble of musician/performers, and both Russell and I can be involved in it. This is what I hope to see for this Project in the future.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications The DVD "Dave Davies Kronikles: Mystical Journey"...was produced with the involvement of another son...   Dave Davies “Mystical Journey” was a collaborative venture with my oldest son Martin. He is also a filmmaker, and it was wonderful being involved and wanting to make a film and program about my spiritual journey. This was a wonderful way to start the process. We hope to make a “Part Two” in the near future.   I would also really love to work with my son Daniel, who has a band called "Year Long Disaster". Hopefully this will happen in the New Year as well…   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications The DVD strives to balance (and connect) musical journey and spiritual journey...do you think you achieved the right balance between the two, and is it possible to appeal equally to both "audiences"?   Dave Davies My intention was to try and show that there are parallels between different sets of belief systems and concepts and spiritual ideas. We need to take each other’s ideas and bring them together if we are to go forward as a spiritual race. I hoped the musical people would like it because of the early years; I discovered many of these people during the Kinks years, such as Madam Blatavatsky, Rudolf Steiner, Carl Jung....   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Klaire Delilah Bennett asks: Have you found since releasing your solo albums and latest works (“Mystical Journey” and “The Aschere Project”) you now have interest in your work from people who aren't and never were Kinks fans?   Dave Davies Yes...this is really exciting. I am meeting and connecting with people who have various ideas and different areas of expertise…people from many walks of life...from abroad...different landscapes of ideas and cultures....we are all one people. It is refreshing to meet those who have interests other than music and who I have never crossed paths with before. They are very inspiring.   Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications Jutta Hammer asks: Do you still have the aim to reach millions of people with your music? Or has music become more a vehicle to transport your spiritual ideas and thoughts to perhaps a more select audience?   Dave Davies It’s for anybody who wants to listen, haha!   Roch Parisien's Rocon Communications Sophie Stillwater asks: What is your relationship with your children like? Do you see them often and feel involved in their lives or has your career made it difficult to stay in touch with them?   Dave Davies I try to keep in touch with my kids as much as I can, because I love them and they inspire me. I love to see them as much as possible, and the older I get, the more I love spending time with them. Each has a gift of their own. It’s difficult not to interfere with their lives; I try to be cautious, haha!   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Dave, speaking of family relationships, when you wade into a public forum like this, you know a number of fan questions are going to touch on brothers and reunions. Let me try posing it this way: do you think the ongoing psychic/emotional battle between you and your brother Ray involves something karmic, or is in some other way intended/destined to develop the two of you spiritually?   Dave Davies Yes, it is of course, but any powerful karmic relationship is put there for us to work with as a valuable lesson. We must never lose sight of our own personal spiritual evolution. Our own spiritual sovereignty is the most important. We are in an important part of the spiritual evolution of the planet, so that karmic relationships are on many levels. We have to deal with our own spiritual lessons for our own self-realization. We mustn’t give up our own spiritual sovereignty…not on any level. We must find the place to make our own compromise, find our own balance.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications In a 1994 interview, you stated that "if you look at the work as the most important thing...hopefully all the personal stuff will dissipate with time, while the work will live on for years." Do you feel it’s working out that way?   Dave Davies Everything we've done, we've done, and it is more important than what has happened on a personal level. But it doesn't mean we could compromise our self-expression. One of the biggest problems is the inability to grow into our own potential. Indirectly, we put limitations or restrictions on those around us.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications In a recent interview in The Guardian, you state: "Ray sucks me dry of ideas, emotions, and creativity...it's toxic for me to be with him." Surely he can only have this power if you give it to him? With the level of spiritual awareness you've achieved, are there not personal barriers you could erect to manage or deflect this? Or to provide for enough acceptance to absorb it?   Dave Davies I hope that I am managing it as well as I can. It is difficult. I cannot be someone else and we cannot do other people’s spiritual work for them. If someone else's program is to take, then sometimes the only course of survival is to remove oneself from that toxic situation.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications What do you say to those who would suggest, if two brothers – especially ones with such a strong creative bond – can't find a way to make it work, what hope is there for the rest of us? For example, how could anyone even glimpse for hope in the Middle East, of any kind...ever...when blood and creative brothers cannot find a way?   Dave Davies The more psychic we become, the more sensitive we become to others' life conditions, needs and wants...so we need to develop our means of meditation and spiritual practice to manage the energies around us in some way.   The reason why there is so much tension and complexity involved in the Middle East is because the working relationship between peoples is out of balance. The same is true of me and Ray. It’s like a man walking lopsided....one leg wants to go one way the other wants to go another way – the man topples over.   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications You said upon his passing that Pete Quaife never really received his due for his contribution to the Kinks. Would you give it to him now for us?   Dave Davies Pete Quaife was the essential part of the Kinks. In fact, if Pete hadn't been there...he was the glue that brought me and Ray together, with his humour, his creativity and his sensitivity. He balanced the dynamic between us. He was crucial for The Kinks, and was just as important to the start of the band as me and Ray.....   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Folks, our time is up, so we must reluctantly let Dave go!   Dave Davies I would just like to mention the Aschere Project one more time, and yes, we do hope to take it to its next stage. And thanks to Roch for this opportunity on the Rocon Communications page and hopefully, we can do it again sometime. Thank you and bless you all for coming to this interview!   Roch Parisien’s Rocon Communications Dave, thank you for the time you took with us today. And thanks to Rosina Mostardini for facilitating this interview session. If you attended the interview or are reading later, I've posted a message at the top of the page for your comments and feedback...also, do check out all the links to vids, audio, and information posting further down the page...scroll and enjoy!   *************************************************** Browse transcripts for previous Facebook Interviews here: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=104735619580753   For more information on The Facebook Interviews: http://www.suzemuse.com/2010/02/music-journalist-finds-clever-use-for-faceboook-comments/ http://humanfacebook.com/2010/09/03/a-completely-random-friend/   For more information on Dave Davies: http://www.davedavies.com/home.htm http://www.detune.tv/ For more information on The Aschere Project: http://www.facebook.com/Theaschereproject   Follow Dave Davies here on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dave-Davies/12499331267   Read more at www.facebook.com

 

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Syd Barrett: Piper, poet, painter - Rob Chapman interviewed

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The Buffalo News

Syd Barrett: Piper, poet, painter

By Jeff Miers

News Pop Music Critic

Earlier this month, Capitol/EMI released "An Introduction to Syd Barrett," a gorgeously rendered collection of songs representing the finest of the Pink Floyd founder's musical achievements.

That the songs included here are all culled from a roughly four-year period now 40 years in the past -- and that the "An Introduction" in the title might suggest a primer in the writings of a young, contemporary artist -- are ironies befitting a project bearing Barrett's name. His is one of the most unusual stories to have emerged from what might loosely be referred to as "the rock era."

Renowned British music journalist Rob Chapman -- who writes for the likes of Mojo, Uncut, the Times, the Guardian and the Independent on Sunday -- will see the release of his biography "A Very Irregular Head: The Life of Syd Barrett" (Da Capo, $28) just as EMI's "An Introduction" disc is unveiled. His book is not the first to explore the life of the myth-enshrouded Barrett -- there have been three previous, of varying quality -- but it is the first to see publication since Barrett's death in 2006. More significantly, it is the first to have been written with the full cooperation of Barrett's family and closest friends.

One might reasonably wonder what all the fuss is about. Barrett, after all, retired from the music business almost immediately upon splitting with Pink Floyd in 1968. He recorded only two solo albums, and by the early '70s, had pretty much settled into the recluse's life he'd live until the end.

Most of his reputation as an eccentric genius has been built upon a single album, Floyd's 1967 debut "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn." The rest of the legend revolves around his reputed status as rock's greatest acid casualty -- the very personification of Swinging '60s London, a man who is said to have ingested enough LSD to have driven himself barking mad, a state from which he never emerged.

And yet, Barrett's appeal has only grown, concurrent with the size and scope of the myth. Here in Buffalo, local musicians of varying ages gather yearly at Mohawk Place to pay tribute to Barrett and his music, and our city is far from alone in this capacity.

One of the challenges facing Chapman as he prepared the excellent "A Very Irregular Head" involved piercing through the veil of myth surrounding Barrett's life and work. It is a conflation of half-truths and slightly altered facts that, the author believes, have done a great disservice to Barrett the artist.

Here, Chapman speaks with The News regarding the endurance of that myth, the resilient charms of "Piper at the Gates of Dawn," and a few possible reasons for the continued resonance of the man's life, work and death in the popular consciousness.

Throughout the book, you point to the fact that part of Syd's genius can be located in his ability to "restrict his emotional and verbal palette and (submit) to the dictates of form." How did this tendency to make much from little manifest itself in his music, particularly during the "Piper" period? I'm glad you picked up on this, because it is key to his musical development, in the early days at least. It is a technique he undoubtedly absorbed during his fine art apprenticeship - hence the palette analogy -- and it is one that resonates throughout the wider development of pop music, particularly whenever art school students are involved. One sound is as valid as another. It's the ideas that are important. During the period -- summer '66 to early '67 -- where he was writing the songs that would appear on "Piper," Syd's lyric writing was very economical. Simple but never simplistic, and seemingly effortless too, but in fact it takes a lot of effort, and craftsmanship, to appear that effortless. The book does a wonderful job of capturing that particular Cambridge group of post-Beat/pre-hippie intellectuals, all of whom ended up doing remarkable things with their lives, to greater and lesser degrees. What was it about Cambridge that manifested itself in the doings of this group of friends? How do you think it may have framed their thought and the creation of their art? Early on in proceedings, before I had even started writing in fact, I tried playing devil's advocate with the whole Cambridge thing, and tried arguing that, well you know, what happened in Cambridge could have happened -- indeed was happening -- in any reasonably hip town that had a clique of hip, happening people. But I soon discovered that what was going on here was utterly unique to Cambridge. Liverpool had its Beat poets and its beat groups. Edinburgh had its folk scene. Other cities had their lively R&B scene. But Cambridge had this unique confluence of affluent middle-class kids, who more often than not, had parents that were even more radicalized and politicized than they were. They were the sons and daughters of "ban the bomb-marching" intellectual parents, and they were themselves becoming radical and free-thinking in a fairly comfortable environment. Among the more hipster-approved musical subcultures -- punk, alternative music, Brit-pop and so forth -- Syd is revered as a god, while everything the Floyd did after "Piper" is commonly held to be bloated and self-indulgent. Is it truly reasonable to assert that "Piper" dwarfed all that came after it? No, I don't think it is reasonable at all. Although my allegiances quite clearly lie with Syd, I'm a big fan of the music the Floyd made in the period immediately after he left. I make it clear in the book that despite the messy circumstances of his leaving and the accrued guilt felt by the band, they were obviously rejuvenated by Syd's departure. The spacey direction their music took in 1968-69 has been massively influential on everyone from Tangerine Dream to the Orb. Go on to YouTube sometime and search for "Pink Floyd:Moonhead." There is roughly five minutes of music that the Floyd provided for BBC's coverage of the first moon landing. The radio sessions they did around the same time for the BBC are also inspired. Why the Floyd have never officially released any of that stuff, I don't know. It's fantastic. Honoring Barrett in Buffalo Dave Gutierrez, guitarist with Irving Klaws, was not surprised to discover that Syd Barrett had a sizable, devout following in our region, comprised of musicians on the Buffalo indie rock scene, and nonperforming fans alike. On Jan. 6, Gutierrez will present the 8th annual Barrett birthday tribute at Mohawk Place. By this point, the show is one of the longest-running Barrett tributes in the country. Here, Gutierrez discusses the continued popularity of the birthday bashes, and the strange fascination Barrett's music continues to hold for so many. Why does Syd Barrett matter to you, and why does he continue to matter to so many people? "I am still in awe of Syd's work. I've always been drawn to what many people would consider the odd or weird, be it in movies, people or music. Growing up in the vinyl era, it was a bit harder to discover underground music than it is today. ... Syd was otherworldly in such a unique way. Why does Syd's legend continue to grow? "I think it's because no matter how many times you hear his work, it still seems alive and fresh. Sure, some of it is somewhat dated, but much of it isn't. How do you classify 'Interstellar Overdrive' or 'Octopus'? It's his genius that is so seductive. It's like a painting that, every time you see it, you see something you hadn't noticed before, even though it's hanging in your living room. "Also, clearly the legends surrounding his LSD abuse and mental illness breed a sick interest that -- while I understand it, and perhaps was seduced by it at a young age -- I find a bit distasteful now. jmiers@buffnews.com Read more at www.buffalonews.com

 

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LIVE from the NYPL: KEITH RICHARDS in conversation with Anthony DeCurtis

"When you are growing up there are two institutional places that affect you most powerfully: the church which belongs to God, and the public Library, which belongs to you. The public library is the great equalizer." --Keith Richards Outlaw, hellraiser, and one of rock music's most gifted and influential guitarists, Keith Richards has forged a life that most of us can only imagine--and often envy. Amazingly he's lived to tell about it, and now this rock Icon has given us the definitive rock autobiography.

In Life, the man himself tells about life lived fast and hard in the creative hurricane--from his days as a young boy growing up in a council estate, listening obsessively to Chuck Berry and Muddy Waters records, to joining forces with Mick Jagger and Brian Jones to form The Rolling Stones.

With characteristic honesty, he reveals all the highs and lows of rock 'n' roll, from the meteoric rise to fame and the notorious drug busts to the women, drinking, and heroin addiction that made him infamous.

In conversation with Anthony DeCurtis, a music journalist, and contributing editor for Rolling Stone, Keith Richards will discuss the storied journey of the Rolling Stones, as well as his passion for books and for history. He will chronicle how he created the revolutionary, high-octane riffs that defined "Jumping Jack Flash," "Gimme Shelter" and "Honky Tonk Woman," his affair with the equally infamous Anita Pallenberg (the mother of three of his children), and the tragic death of Brian Jones. He will also discuss the personal values that have made him a proud, successful father, and a happily married man for more than twenty-five years.

From falling in love with his wife Patti Hansen to his relationship with his "brother," Mick Jagger, we follow Keef on the ultimate road trip we have all longed to know more about-- the story of an unfettered, fearless, on-the-edge life lived to the absolute fullest.

ANTHONY DE CURTIS has written frequently about both Keith Richards and the Rolling Stones in the course of his thirty-year career as a music journalist, most notably for Rolling Stone, where he is a contributing editor. He is the author of "In Other Words: Artists Talk About Life and Work" and editor of "Blues & Chaos: The Music Writing of Robert Palmer." His essay accompanying the Eric Clapton box set "Crossroads" won a Grammy in the "Best Album Notes" category. He holds a Ph.D. in American literature, and teaches in the writing program at the University of Pennsylvania. He lives in New York City, where he was born and bred.

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THE MOVE - Interview and Live excerpt in Holland 1966

Wow!!!!!!!

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THE MOVE - Interview and Live excerpt in Holland

beyondthebeat | November 11, 2010 THE MOVE 1966 - Interview at their hotel-room somewhere in Holland plus live footage. (Wanna see more like this? - Then go to http://tv.beyondthebeatgeneration.com Category: Music Tags: Move 1966 garage psych 60s 60's Read more at www.youtube.com

 

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via The Stash Dauber

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LAist Interview: Ornette Coleman

Photo by Volume 12 via flickr.

It is almost impossible to overstate the effect that Ornette Coleman had on the world of American music in the late 1950s. Coleman’s early records for Atlantic - using a band formed in LA, with Don Cherry, Charlie Haden and Billy Higgins, trading the drum seat with Ed Blackwell - declared complete freedom from jazz convention, including the restrictions of tonality itself, while remaining rooted in the blues at its deepest level. In doing so, he and a handful of like-minded revolutionaries wrenched the conceptual possibilities offered by the avant-garde out of the hands of white intellectuals and took it to the clubs, where its presence remains strongly felt. Response to the New Thing that Coleman called "harmolodics" was swift and intense, and the greats attacked and praised with equal vigor; no less a figure than John Coltrane hired Ornette’s band and covered three of his songs when he recorded The Avant-Garde in 1960. In short, it’s impossible to imagine that jazz in the sixties, or the entire trajectory of outsider musicians in a multitude of genres that have spawned since, could have happened the same way without him. Coleman is one the last of the jazz pioneers we have left, not only still living but still vital after eighty years on the planet, composing and performing at a remarkably high level. (Check out 2005’s Pulitzer-winning Sound Grammar for confirmation.) He brings his current group, including his son Denardo Coleman on drums, and both Tony Falanga and Al McDowell on bass, to UCLA Live at Royce Hall this Wednesday, and having heard the radio broadcast of his appearance at this year’s North Sea Jazz Festival, I advise you to expect miracles. Ornette Coleman spoke to LAist last week, via phone from his home in New York City. A word about the length and format of this piece: Most of my interviews over the phone tend to run about fifteen minutes, during which I ask and receive answers to anywhere from five to ten questions. Ornette and I spoke for nearly an hour, during which I managed to ask two of the questions on my list, and I’m not sure if he directly addressed either one of them. Instead, he started interviewing me at several points, and I’m horrified to say I ducked several of his questions. (Though to be fair, how would you respond in the moment to something like, ”I don’t have no idea of how much the human race controls the value of life. Do you?”) For the first fifteen minutes I kept waiting for him to say something that might naturally provide a segue into any of my other questions, written out on a sheet of paper, which I kept glancing at while trying to follow his stream of consciousness. But around the fifth time he started to make a point by talking about the mathematical distance from C to F sharp, I looked down at the list, thought, “this too is improvising, keep your eye on the ball”, and pushed it away. And after that, things improved noticeably. Rather than edit his remarks to a more traditional interview length, I have transcribed our talk nearly completely, omitting a few brief sidebars. Like his music itself, you’re not always sure where he’s going, but you eventually find yourself at a place you’ve never seen before, grateful that someone on this earth was intrepid enough to discover the route. When you began your career, what was it about Los Angeles that attracted you to this place and made you decide to relocate here? I think I started with playing with other musicians that was much more active than I was. So I started to understand how to deal with, I guess, what was expected of me, and I started getting concerned about two things: the key and the movement. What then was the melody. And now I’m going back to the fact that it’s needle or nothing, but just the pleasure of how good your skills are in relationship to what you’re doing. Which is not so bad, as it is now, of today. With the modes of music distribution having changed profoundly in the last ten years, there’s a situation now where the means of production are maybe more in the hands of artists, but the means of promotion through the label system are somewhat diminished, I was wondering if you feel that the current climate is more conducive to a person who’s trying to create music that’s unique or unusual, as compared to when you began recording. The thing I’m much more aware of is that the concept of improvising is growing. Mostly, all the people I see, they’re interested in improvising, from not thinking about they key, as thinking about the quality of what they can do with the improvising in relationship to… When you say what key, or what else? There’s the key, there’s the modulation, and most of all it’s the melody. And those three things boil down to being one thing, and that is, basically, they key and the relationship to what the, how can I say it… The key represents the scale that you’re shooting but it doesn’t represent the quality of how long it takes to get rid of the notes of the key that you’re in. For some reason there’s at least, I would say, five notes that is always free of some key, and because of that it kind of slows down what we call improvising because, the improvising is the name of the key but the notes are different than the key. For instance what I’m trying to say about they key of the notes. When you’re shooting, when you’re playing within the rules, it’s not the same thing as when you’re playing the sound. Because the sound is mostly dominated by the name of the key that you’re in. But, if you’re in the key of C, you know, there’s not a C sharp and there’s not a B flat. So all of those things have something to do with how you transform, what I would say has something to do with the tonic. And transposing things from a dominant seventh to a fourth or a fifth or a sixth like that, that doesn’t have anything to do with nothing but your brain. Everything else has something to do with your eyes and your ears. But still for some reason, how can I say it…. Written music is much easier to understand. The way in which it is put together to represent whether you’re losing or winning. For instance like, I think it’s the dominant seventh that had a lot to do with keys, and the fourth and the major seventh had to do with changes. But even so, shooting pool, I guess that’s what it’s called when you’re shooting the balls to go to a certain division of corners or whatever it is. But the structure of whether it’s a seventh or third is not so important as how many balls are there to shoot in relationship to what key you’re relating to with it. And what’s so amazing about that, I think, the key of C has all the seven notes that has to do with all the rest of the keys. There’s seven notes in every scale, isn’t it? In a major scale, yeah. Yeah that’s what I’m saying. A major scale has more changes in relationship, you have the same in C. You can be in A, you can be in G, you can be B flat, you can be in F and G, that’s all happening in a major scale and still be in the … how can I say it… I’m trying to explain two things. They key that you’re in and the note that you’re playing is not the same thing as how many times those same notes become in different keys. And I don’t know how it for works for you but for me I basically only see two things. And that is the domination of the space between the third and the twelfth note or whatever. It’s kind of strange to run the mathematics while you’re shooting, but knowing the mathematics doesn’t change the size or the duration of the note. And I don’t know how it works for everybody, but it’s very simple to do. Probably the only thing that’s I guess, that has any what we call culture is what we call the third, the seventh and the fourth. They’re the movement of what we call the tonics. For some reason, I don’t know why. Do you play? Yes I do, I’m a drummer. Oh! Well, there’s nothing wrong with your job. I have studied some theory but mainly seen the application through playing, playing a rhythmic instrument but trying to communicate in the communal thought, participate with the group thought that’s being expressed through those intervals. Well that’s what’s so amazing. Every scale has seven notes, isn’t that right? Mm-hmm. Well can you imagine, if every scale had seven notes, and I don’t know to explain the difference between a seven on the scale and I think there’s only, fifty different notes that turn into all the same distance as say a seventh or third, a flatted fifth and a fourth. Those are the most common names for shooting music especially when it’s you know, when you have a table and you’re shooting the balls, and one player’s shooting ‘em, then another and all that, but for some reason the keys have a different position than just, what can be done to the notes. I don’t know how it works but I do know this, that the key of C, all the keys mostly have seven notes in them to represent the title of the key in relationship to what the notes represent. Like you have C, D, E, F, G, A, B, and if it’s a F sharp, A flat, B, C sharp and E flat. So really the quality of how the knowledge goes, keeping up with something that has to do with a number, has more to do with the distance between what you would call the tonic and what you would call the resolution of the note. Like for instance, C and F sharp, that’s a flatted fifth apart. But basically, the C is much more feared than that flatted fifth, I would. The reason why I’m talking about this is, the major scale dominates all of the other scales. All the scales have only seven notes, right? Right. Can you imagine, if they all have seven notes, and seven keys… seven times seven is … sixty-two I think. The reason why I’m saying this is because, see, the title of the notes is not the same thing as the programming of it in relationship to, you know, if it’s a third or fourth or something like that. That’s different from what it is when you’re modulating or when you’re in a key. But personally, I don’t know how to say this but… the C scale doesn’t have any flats or sharps. And all the other scales does. And that’s pretty heavy in itself. But imagine, though, aren’t all the scales built for the same distance of notes? I think so. Sure, they’re a half step apart, but the relationship between two of them will have a different emotional quality, even if the math is the same, up and down the scale. It’s like the fours and the major sevenths, in the key of C. And you get a B but that’s like a flatted fifth. It’s kind of weird, but it’s true. Anyway I don’t want to run you crazy, talking like this. No, this is interesting! I did want to get your opinion, though, from a business standpoint… From your observation of the way the music industry is running today, is it a conducive atmosphere for people who are trying to do something that doesn’t have an established audience? Well what you’re describing to me is something that’s already been activated when it’s called the “style”. For instance, how can I say it?. Say when you have all notes in a sequence, like for instance when you have a key, the keys are considered having, how many notes in the key of C? Seven notes? Yes. But that’s true for any key, isn’t it? Yes. Well, then we’re right back where we started. But the sound of a note… the scale of C is not the same thing as the scale of F sharp. But it has the distance of the same notes. What I’m really trying to say is that sound and knowledge only goes together physically and mentally. And the physically has nothing to do with anything but the ability to use your skills with your arms, more or less, I guess. I’m not a master at anything that has to do with the human body, no more than two arms, two legs, a head and some eyes, and some toes. Maybe that has nothing to do with anything. We’re all made the same way, I guess. If not, it’s not because something that you took made you grow different. The whole concept of life has something, lets it put like: Life itself is in everything that has anything to do with motion, meaning and sometimes what we call the knowledge of the skill that has something to do with why it affects different things for different reasons. And I don’t know how that works but it’s so… For instance look at flat and sharp. If you have C, you to F sharp, you call it a flatted fifth. In F, G to C is called a fourth. But that’s just in the form of just, calculating something to relate to your brain or emotion or just your knowledge or whatever. It doesn’t help you to play any better. It just defines what it is, what you’re supposed to be doing. And that’s kind of weird, but there’s nothing to replace it. To be more precise, the reason why I’m talking this way, and I’ve been playing music since I was twelve, and then growing up in the sixties. But I have never thought about myself having anything to do with the knowledge of something that makes a sound. I’ve always been interested in knowing something that I could relate and get the knowledge out of what it represents. And you know what’s amazing about shooting pool, you have lots of numbers in pool, but the sound gets in the way of all the numbers a lot of the time. What was I going to ask you… do you play a transposed instrument? I don’t, I play drums and I sing some, though I’ve found it interesting talking to musicians about things like this, how on a piano, B flat and A sharp are in the same fixed position, the same pitch, but playing it on a horn or on a guitar, the way you come at those notes, they’re a little different. They sure are. I agree with what you. But look, you can take C and F sharp, that’s a flatted fifth. But C and F sharp, G is the fourth and F sharp is the major seventh, of that same key. But yet C and F sharp is a flatted fifth. But if you have G to C is the fourth, and G to F sharp is the major seventh, and four and seven is eleven. There is no eleventh key. It’s pretty weird. Do you have these mathematical relationships in your head while you’re improvising, or is that just an expression of what happened in the moment of emotion? No, what you’re explaining to me… I’ve been playing since I was at least twelve, and I have always been sensitive to knowledge for some reason. And knowledge, is seems to me, is a fixed way to, how can I say this, it’s a fixed way for everyone to have an equal relationship to the results of what they’re trying to do. But it doesn’t have anything to do, to raise the quality of your value. I don’t know… But it’s there. What instrument do you play again? I play drums. Well you’re freer than most everyone, you’re freer than anyone that’s playing, using a specific tool to bring something different from that tool and how you use it. I mean, imagine ... Look what we call the keys, look what we call modulation, look at what we call the melody and look at what we call the harmony. It still ain’t changing nothing to do with changing the notes. Isn’t that true? Yes. Well now we’re right back where we started. I mean that is so amazing. I’m saying that because, I’m left handed and I’ve been playing left handed ever since I became a young man. But basically, I don’t know how to say this…. The structure of the emotional feeling in human… it’s more based on the relationship to how we relate to our relatives and our friends in an emotional way, that has something to do with the quality of what those emotions represent in relationship to two things: distance/ time and ideas. You can’t do without it. But you can do something with it. And personally, I don’t know how anyone really gets from the quality of what they learn, more than what they know. I mean, learning is fine but knowing is better. At least that’s what I believe. Will you tell me your name again? Bob Lee. And you play drums, well you got the best freedom to yourself, and you have the most advanced form of activities, aw man, that’s good. (I take a moment to tell Ornette a story about the time Joe Baiza taught me how to play “Lonely Woman,” on stage in front of an audience, by simply instructing me to play a fast pulse and listen to what he was doing.) I think that’s true that the idea is all that it is for everybody. The notes are not in any way going to change because their numbers just gives them their positions. The sound, when you take your cue and shoot, that’s your eyes and your nervous system that you’re dealing with. And basically … I suppose in some way it’s just about how clear you’re executing and controlling your nervous system. At least that’s how I feel about things, that I can’t make it something that it isn’t. Like look at C and F sharp, that’s a flatted fifth apart. But in the key of G, C is the fourth, but in the key of F sharp, it would be a G. There’s an F sharp in the key of G. But then there’s a C in the key of G natural too, isn’t there? Yeah, it is. The fourth and the flatted fifth is the major seventh…. Fourth in the key of C is F, and in the key of G is F sharp. But C and F sharp is a flatted fifth apart. That’s pretty heavy. The reason why I’m saying that is, I think there’s only seven of the naturals, and the other five notes of the twelve notes are the notes that are sharp or flat, but it’s not true. From C to B all the notes are natural aren’t they? In a major scale yeah. Well see what you just said… in a major scale. But in the other scales, it’s coming up because of keys don’t it? Something like that. Mm-hmm. Well that’s the point I’m making. And now, I‘ve said something that I just realized, the key itself. Like the key of C, you have, C, D, E, F, G, A and B. That’s the key of C. But it’s only… isn’t there only twelve notes regardless of what… Right, the chromatic scale is twelve tones. C to B sharp, E to E flat, like that? I hadn’t even thought about that! Oooh! But wait a minute, even so, within the twelve tones are there more of the same notes just because of the range? I don’t know if it’s true, I’m just asking. I think so, as we were talking about before, the difference in the tonality between a G flat and an F sharp… Yeah, you said something there, ooh that’s fantastic. Right. But then how you do you deal with that playing in 12-tones? But what about E to F sharp and what about B to F? That’s the same game. And it’s only a half step apart, F to F sharp and B to C. Right. Oooooh! Anyway what we’re talking about is the human race. The members of the human race have advanced in lots of things, emotionally and socially, based on what we call the ability of enjoying how your nervous system is responding to your knowledge. And I’m not talking this way because I’m a professor or I know something about the quality of life and knowledge but I do know this. Look at your fingers and you’ll see you only have five. But those five fingers are doing much more than you can imagine. Well what I’m trying to express in one word, there’s a word called Life and it is the master of everything that we humans do. And if you think there’s something different, if it wasn't like that, ooooh. That's heavy. But nobody invented it that, right? It’s natural. I guess. I mean, knowledge is something that you’ve been told, that … you’ve been learned because you’ve been told. Is that right? Been told or something you figured out. Well what I mean by told is, some person that is educated is showing you where that knowledge came from, how it got to be what it is, and you can do with it. Well that’s… phew! I don’t know how to say this but… the quality of need and want is not based upon the security of your brain. What I’m trying to say now is that, for instance …F sharp and G. B natural is, the fifth of B is F sharp. But the fourth of G is C. So now, G and C is a fourth, and F sharp and B is a fourth, but do you realize that F sharp and C is a flatted fifth, and G and B is a major third? And you would never think of it that way, but it is. That’s… to be more precise, being alive and being human, human has and is affected by many, many things that changes your emotion, but no one knows but you. And you can’t prove to anybody why it happened that way to you and not them. I don’t know, ooh, I’m getting more and more concerned about two things and it’s because I’m very worried. One of them is called Life, and the other is called Ability. Now is it the ability that makes what makes your life is, or is it your life that makes what your ability is? Which one do you think? That’s a ponderous question! Yeah it sure is. And not only is it ponderous, but you don’t have to talk to see. That’s pretty heavy. The reason why I’m saying these things is because being human, which is how I know that, I know about my own concept of being alive, and talking to you and speaking to people, I know that my basis or whatever it’s called, is a human being. But what makes me a human being, now that is very interesting. My mama made me a baby, made me when I was a baby, then I grew up to be the way I am now, but I have never thought about being any particular form of human being, but I must say this. The human being is programmed in a way where that program can change at any moment in any way and get to something that has to do with what we call the human race. I don’t know the human race to be so different in relationship to two things: race, ability, knowledge, quality, whatever. Every person that’s human will find themselves doing the same thing that everyone else is doing and calling it something else, because of what it means to them. Well let’s face it. How can I say this but, I’m trying to say something that… what makes being the intellectual part of life so different to making someone feel outside of being up to speed as a citizen, being on the same level as someone else mentally, physically and everything else it has something to do with. The knowledge of being alive but, it doesn’t work that way. I mean I don’t know this for a fact, but when we say “life”, are we talking about people, or are we talking about a substance that’s called, something that’s called “life” to have that title? Is life different than if the title wasn’t called that? You mean like, the difference between human life and biology? See there you just said it. But biology is definite. How can I say it. Biology is a definite way of analyzing something, more or less, right? Now we’re right back where we started. But everybody has accepted that for the same reason. But that doesn’t mean it’s the supreme way of achieving whatever it is that you’re trying to do. But wait a minute, I’m a about to say something that’s even more weird. See the flatted fifth of C, which is F sharp, and F sharp is the major seventh of G. Now is that distance or sound? Is it distance? That’s crazy. The reason why I’m saying that, even as I’m sitting here with the newspaper, and obviously the newspaper is definitely improvising from what we call the spelling of sound and words and meaning. You know, here’s a word called “lovely”, and it’s spelled backwards. Well what happened there, what makes the word “lovely” have the sound of what we call, of the public or secular knowledge, all it is is an audience for people. But really, how can I say what I’m trying to get to? What I’m really trying to get to is that, the human race, and the members of the human race, are not very profound on only the ability to improve our ability, to change our ability. It has something to do with learning something that you don’t know, and that is working every day, twenty-four hours a day, learning something that you don’t know in order to be able to be active and when you can learn, to use it for something that has somwthing to do with the meaning of what you’re trying to achieve. The reason why I’m saying that is because, I’m sitting on the phone speaking to you, and we haven’t met, we don’t know each other, but I do know this: that the telephone is allowing us to have this experience, and that comes from the knowledge of humans. Well now, what … look at money. I mean, can you print money and put any kind of value on it, and it goes to be that way? Now I don’t know if that’s true but that’s pretty heavy if it does. Does money have a fake image to it, or does it just have the symbol of what it represents in relationship to being human? I don’t know, personally. I mean there’s many different (kinds of) currency, of money, is that right? Mm-hmm. Well then we’re right back where we started. So what I’m really trying to say is that I’m speaking to you on the phone right now, and I don’t know, I don’t think we know each other personally, and why I’m speaking this long. But I’m aware of two things, that wherever you are and wherever I am, that knowledge has made it possible for us to take our idea, our sound enough for you to identify what I’m saying and what you’re saying. And that is fantastic! But why is it that, when you, I don’t know, being rich or poor, or being, I don’t know. What I’m trying to say, I don’t have no idea of how much the human race controls the value of life. Do you? If you put it that way, that’s very hard to say. It’s hard to do. I mean it’s so obvious that knowledge is one of the most gifted things to human beings as long as everybody finds a way to use it in some form, a way that provides them to have some value to their environment. But now there is something called money that only comes from a place like, where they print the money up, whoever prints the money up for America. Whoever prints the dollar bill up. I mean, everybody can’t print their own dollar bill and set it out and say, “yes, it’s all right!” . But whatever that means, and this is what’s so amazing, how can any person become a quality for value just because of the, how can I say it… the knowledge of what it represents because of the classification of the world. It’s not the same thing as everybody participating in that world equally. Yes! OK, well now we’re talking. And I’m talking to you on the phone not because I’m trying to make a conversation out of what I’m saying. I’m saying this because I personally go to sleep, do what I do, and get up and try to work and go and find a job, whatever it is. I know that I can’t print my own money and everybody can say “yeah, this is all right, we’ll take this.” But I’m sure there are people who can print their own money and it still works for them. What I’m trying to talk about is, the human race is human but not by, but, how can I say this? The human race is human but the classification of the human race has many other alternatives of not only what race you are, but (how) effective you are and what is your ability to survive, and what is your skill in relationship to knowledge? All of those things are very, very, very close to why racism, socialism, and plain old what we call being poor and being rich, every human being has experienced something that is different in the way they wake up every morning and speak to someone, “good morning, how are you,” and all that. But when it comes to knowledge, it’s not “how are you”, it’s saying, “how much and when will I be paid”, and all that. And I don’t know it has to be that way. Because it seems to me that the human being has a much more eternal way of accepting what life is. I mean look at the word God and look at the word life. L-I-F-E and G-O-D. I mean those two terms eliminates people from having to worry about how someone is treating them in relationship to what they mean to someone, whether it’s broke or poor, or someone that’s lost their job or whatever. What I’m trying to say, I have no idea why the human race is so divided because of value. And I’m not one to sit here and try to make value express itself. But I am not interested in making slaves or making anyone in a degenerating way because of human. To me, that’s not something I want to participate in. I’m sorry if I’m talking backwards to you or whatever. No, this is very interesting! Well I’ll tell you, and when I say I’ll tell you, I’m sitting here in New York City, speaking to you, and I don’t have any clue of trying to go outside and make a fortune or go outside and impress some people that “I can do this” and all that. I don’t know how to be the human being that I want to be. I know the human being I don’t want to be and which I don’t want to be a killer and I don’t want to deprive someone of something that they want to be doing , and if I don’t them to do it I don’t want to be that way and I don’t want to deprive anybody financially, socially, racially or any of those ways. But I am not able to live that every day and smile to everyone I meet because I don’t know everybody. But I do know one thing, that life, every human being that's walking with life, and the thing about it, I don’t know what life is made out of but the human being is at the zenith of what we call human. That’s fantastic and most human beings, you know, have a quality of what their origin or… well that only has to do with two things: how valuable and what is the intelligent part that gives it the clue to be active? Now it could be money or it could be just plain old, how could I say it …knowledge. I don’t know, well, knowledge is, obviously knowledge is based in immortality in relationship to being two things: being youthful and being healthful. And how we relate to each other as humans. But what I really don’t understand, what is race? Does race have to have anything to do with what you don’t do and what you do do? It shouldn’t be that way. And if it is that way, what is it supposed to mean? What is it supposed to allow you to become? I don’t know but I’m not trying to find out neither. But one thing is true, knowledge does exist but knowledge is not… knowledge is taught. It’s not something that someone else have and nobody else doesn’t have it. But still, it’s taught but it’s not taught for the reason why it’s knowledge. It’s taught because of the reason why human beings provide each other a way of communicating the value of their socialism, or whatever you want to call it. Look at money. Oooh! If it wasn’t for money, what would human beings do? Do you have any idea? Trap and trade? (laughs) Oh man, you’re a real American. That’s fantastic! But wait a minute! But you can’t trap and trade human beings! Well that’s not the same thing, is it? But wait a minute! Is knowledge the only way that you learn? I’m asking a question. Well there’s a difference between knowledge I have of music theory and intervals, which was explained to me and I can demonstrate it and see how it works, versus knowledge that fire is hot because I stuck my finger on the stove. I suppose there is that kind of knowledge that’s not necessarily taught. Well you see the F sharp is a flatted fifth, of course from C to F sharp is a major seventh but it’s still the same notes. Can you imagine the freedom of what that gives the person that is using it from an intelligent of point of view, and has working in his favor, has his value in relationship to what money represents. I’m not talking race or anything like that. What I’m really trying to say is that, money, is there only one way that money can be money and it has to be the way it is? As of now? Is there any other way money could be different than the way it is? That’s a good question. It sure is. And I’m not here trying to fight it. Because I’ve stayed broke with a broken tooth, but I don’t want to run you crazy because I’m sitting here talking. But I’m just saying this, the only thing I can say is that I’m made in the form of a human so that made me think I have some qualities of not being an animal, and I’d call it a human being, but there’s something about the human being that I can’t express to the world because there’s something called racism, there’s something called race, there’s something called color, there's something called… so many different things. But they don’t have to be there to express something that affects you. That’s just a powder over you. It’s like a powder puff, you put some powder on your face and your face changes. But really, isn’t the concept of life mostly coming to origination because of the quality of God? God doesn’t exist, is that right. Yes. God doesn’t exist? Did you say yes? I may have misunderstood what I thought you were saying but I believe there is a spiritual quality that goes considerably beyond what’s knowable. Even when it’s knowable. Do everyone get a chance to participate in it? I doubt it. The reason why I’m speaking to you, it’s not that I’m trying to make any point against or for anything. I’m only speaking about two things. Look at the word “human.” Now, i nobody lied that their face wouldn’t be made to identify themselves as a human. Is that true? Yes. Well then, OK, how can humans have any role if the human that is there, the role, who you are, doesn’t have any value. It’s more, what can you do and what do you know? But why do you need to know what can you do and what can you know when you’ve already lived long enough to tell someone to kiss your butt or whatever? I personally don’t understand two things. You have so many different, white race, you have black, you have all kinds of people, human beings. But it ain’t changing human beings. The names might be changed. But the human part of human, there’s no way that any human being that’s made like everyone else can say they’re different. We’re all made the same way. But what’s wrong with the light? Why don’t we all make heaven on earth? Why would someone want…God wants you to do something and someone else wants you to do something. And that’s not even reason to explain it all, oh, what can I say. Well I’m sitting here realizing two things. It’s so true that the world is a master of everyone’s way of wanting to achieve something. And in what we call the human world, we learn how to read and write and count, and all of a sudden the money comes along and you need more money and more money. And the people that created the money don’t have that much, because that’s what they do, for it to be able to get to someone like myself, I don’t know about you. But the reason why I’m saying that, it seems to me that life is playing a back door and everything else is in the front. But life should be in the front and everything else should be in the back! And I’m not saying that because of my race or my playing or nothing. I’m talking about it, I mean, I’m still alive and I want to build. But I’m not worried about who doesn’t like me if I’m still alive and who doesn’t like me if I die. I want to learn about, what is the (uintelligble)? Learning something I can believe in because of who I’m not. I don’t have to be anyone to die. And since I don’t have to do that, what do I have to do because I’m alive? And I don’t know how that works either, ha ha. And the reason I’m saying that is I’m talking with my cousin, and there’s two of us here, and I’m in New York City, and I’m talking to him as I’m talking to you, one of my relatives from Fort Worth and wherever. But the reason I’m saying this is, whether you want to create a white race, or a black race or blue race, whatever, everybody has two eyes, a nose and a butthole, ha ha ha. So that has that nothing to… why do we want to be against each other? When we’re all using the same tools, heh heh, we’re using the same conditions to relate to those things that we’re doing, not so good to each other. And I don’t know why and I’m not sitting here trying to find out. Look, I don’t know what race you are and I, they call me black or nigger or whatever it is, that’s the closest that I can see what I’m supposed to be, ha ha ha. But I am not concerned about it. And the reason why is because there is another word called “Life,” and it doesn’t have no image. I mean Life is not, two pieces of beans and some of cornbread, ha ha ha. You don’t know that phrase! Ornette Coleman appears at UCLA Live’s Royce Hall on Wednesday, November 3 at 8pm. Tickets, $49.25 to $90.25, available from Ticketmaster. By Bobzilla in Arts & Events on November 1, 2010

Tags: bobzilla free jazz interview laist ornette coleman royce hall saxohone ucla live Read more at laist.com

 

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Remembering Robert Delford Brown

http://www.interviewmagazine.com/blogs/art/2009-04-07/remembering-robert-delf...

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Remembering Robert Delford Brown

By STAFF   04/07/2009 02:49 PM

 

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Robert Delford Brown was born in Colorado in 1930 and received his BA and MA from UCLA. In 1959 he moved to New York City, and became enmeshed in major (and fringe) art activities and movements alike --Pop Art, Happenings, Correspondence Art, Performance and Fluxus. In 1964, he "founded" the "First National Church of the Exquisite Panic, Inc.," establishing its headquarters within an ongoing architectural experiment he entitled "The Great Building Crack Up" On West 13th Street. Around the same time Brown was preparing Meat Show, which consisted of thousands of pounds of meat in a locker in New York 's Washington Meat Market. That work doubled as the First Grand Opening Service of The First National Church of the Exquisite Panic, Inc.

Robert Delford Brown died Sunday, April 5, at the age of 78, of presumed accidental drowning while scouting locations in Wilmington, North Carolina. Brown is too little recognized for his contribution to performance art or his revolutionary motto, "Everything is art, everyone is an artist; there is no not art." Interview remembers the artist via this interview from November 1972, conducted by critic and sometime hat designer Lil Picard:

 

Fetishism, 1. belief in or use of fetishes. 2. Psychiatry: the compulsive use of some inanimate object in attaining sexual gratification, such as a shoe, a lock of hair, stockings, underclothes, a neckpiece, etc 3. blind devotion. Also, fetichism-fetichistic. Adj. (American College Dictionary)
RDB (Robert Delford Brown) says: "The end of everything today is Anarchy." 

When RDB came to London from Juan les Pins, where he had his brown hair dyed dayglo pink, nobody even looked at him.  But when he redies the hair his natural color, borw, the waiters in his London Hotel said: "Oh, Mr. Brown, you look so much better in brown.  Bob brown is a natural.  A natural Dadaist.  The color of his hair is brown, but his humor is black.  RDB looks great.  He is a tall man and somehow he reminds me of a drawing on the cover page of a Grove Press pocketbook, the famous "anonymous autobiography story, of a wealthy Victorian who lived for sex alone...", RDB looks very much like the Author of "My Secret Life"....

His secret and not so secret ART-Life is devoted to Fetichism-and it is about Fetichism he talks, sitting in the kitchen in his "Masterpiece", the Great Crackup Building 251 West 13th Street.  His wife Rhett, keeps us company, cooking a deliciously smelling diner, while Bob is smoking, laughing, coughing, talking and being his own surrealistic crazy self...

On the wall, next to the efficient super modern kitchen are four screen prints pinned up. Part of his newest work and edition of 200 prints, of a down to earth fetichistic nature.  They represent women images, female figures in bright colors, with overlarge breasts, exposed, building out form clothing, bound with strips of leather and clothing, and small drops of a white liquid (Milk) are glittering like rhinestones on the pink skin of the plump breasts.  A male hand is seen on one of the prints milking the fluid out from the nipple'-even a glass is there, into which the milk is floating. The half nude victims of the photos, which RDB used for his works of Fetichistic Art, seem passive-and somehow the effect of the colored images is only artistic and not at all pornographic, not even erotic.  The prints have-at least to me, only an artistic look, they are colors and forms in space...and not any more porno-photos used for screenprints to show Fetichism in Art.  They are part of a one man show, which opened October 14th in the Crack-up Gallery place-a building that looks from the outside like a nineteenth century library or a church, and on the inside more like a boat, than a house. Everywhere one turns are surprises. Gangways, platforms, staircases, brick walls, partitions, a tremendously high ceiling, a roof garden, tapestries, art objects, goblins, sculptures, ceramics, quilts, paintings, materials draped, ropes and strings and cords strung in the second floor in space...any moment one expects that a happening might take place, dancers might appear or something very daring, unusual, wild and surreal might happen.  And in fact it sometimes does, because RDB is an old hand in Happenings, he did many in our famous Happening-"happy sixties," and he appeared in Allan Kaprow's directed "ORIGINALE" by Karlheinz Stockhausen in the role of the "PAINTER" (1964).

RDB Biography reads like a short story from a far out pop poetry book.  Born 1930.  Oct. in Portland, Colorado.  Received B.A. 1952 at U.C.L.A. One man Exhibition at Ed Kelly's Frame shop.  Westwood, Cal.  1952, received M.A. at U.C.L.A. 1958.  1959, moved to New York City.  1964 performed the role of Painter in Karlheinz Stockhausen's "Originale", directed by Allan Kaprow, NYC.  1964 founded the First National Church of Equisite Panic, Inc. and began presenting "Grand Opening Services."  1964  "Meatshow an Environment Washington Meat Market." 1965 arrested for possession of pornographic material, Nassau County N.Y. 1965 Cow Lane Weekend during which Claes Oldenburg presented a strip swimming pool Happening and a strip pool Happening in Great Neck, L.I. 1965 "Out of Order, please use the toilet down the hall across the lobby," an event at the Bel Air Sands Motel, West Los Angeles, Cal.  1966 the charge of possession of pornographic material was resolved with a plea of guilty to disorderly conduct, and a promise not to appeal.  1966"you are cordially invited to a cocktail party an event at the Hotel Negresco, Nice, France, 1966" Free Striptease with drum and bugle corps accompaniment.  Petticoat Lane, London, England, 1967 began the most ambitious Grand opening Service to date, The Great Building Crack-Up, an actual Collision between a 19th Century building and a 20th century building.  It will be completed in 1982, at which time a hole will be cut into the roof and the entire structure will be filled with concrete-making the largest trompe l'oeill sculpture in the world.  It will be given to the United States of America as  a Memorial to the unsung heroines of American History-this Mistresses of American Presidents.  1971, founded the Great Building Crack-Up Gallery.  1971 Henceforth, all Grand Opening Services will be incorporated into a colossal Master Stroke-THE UNIVERSAL FESTIVAL OF PHARBLONGENCE

LIL PICARD: "What do you want to tell the Artworld and the public in New York with your latest show of Fetichistic Art?"

ROBERT DELFORD BROWN: Let me tell you, all that started 1965.  I tried to get these fetichistic photos enlarged and reproduced.  So I went to Jack Golden, who at that time, when he was still alive, did silkscreens for Warhol, Rauschenberg, Larry Rivers and many others...and he tried to get a photo lab for me and he asked six studios, but they all wouldn't do it. They thought it too pornographic and therefore too dangerous to fool around with. They refused, because the lab had women working for them, and they didn't want to upset people.  So I went to Lawrence Alloway, who was at that time at the Guggenheim Museum, because I thought if I get a letter that I am a serious artist, and somebody of authority speaks for me, I will find a place to do the enlargements.  And I found a very good place, "Modern Age," they kept the negatives in their safe...but you see, times changes so fast, now those things of 1967 are really innocent stuff and nothing exceptional anymore, but in 1965 that was a bitch...

LP: What is it that fascinates you so much with this theme and subject matter, the freak photos of sex pathology?

RDB: I don't know why I did them, I seem to be interested and fascinated by morbid things.  The law saved my by a fate worse than death-I am telling you-because I was also at that time, when I was doing those Fetich-things, mailing away letters and checks to get rar porno Material and porno films-but you'll see I do everything as an artist, just like the Great Building Crack-Up, I never think about the outcome of things.  Whatever I do, I do as an artistic enterprise.

LP: What happened to you when you did the fetich-images, before the time when porno and sex became the daily lifestyle of the youth generation?

RDB: I got into trouble with the law' they came and raided my studio and I was convicted of an offense, that's not too bad, it's not on the record, it's less than a misdemeanor...just an offense.

LP: So you are not a criminal...just a Pornographist?

RDB: Yes, a pornographiste.

LP: Your ad in Art Forum, showed a Double Portrait of a male, it's called the "Flasher."

RDB: Yes, it's a portrait of myself.

LP: Why is it called "The Flasher"?

RDB: He flashes for a moment his Genitals.

LP: Is that something you are involved with in your own personal sex life? I mean, would you go to the subway and open your fly, for a moment as a "Flasher"-Artist-porno-maniac-pornographiste?

RDB: No, of course not, I think it's pathetic to do that!

LP: But it's a well known fact, much written about in Sex Pathology books, like the ones of Krafft Ebing and Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld.

RDB: Of that's interesting , le me jot down their names.

LP: What books are you mostly reading Bob?

RDB: The medial Dictionary...William Burroughs...I am fascinated by Burroughs-but the last five months I just read Time and Life Magazine....

LP: You said it's pathetic if people do such weird things like exposing their sex organs in subways, or cuttings of their wrists or binding breasts, or whatever else strange thigns they are doing, but at the same time it fascinates you and you think it's funny...

RDB: Yes, it's pathetic and also funny.
LP: It's an obsession for the people and the only way they can reach satisfaction and relieve....

RDB: Sure, the human state is pathetic altogether, but eh artist is the observer in these cases, the artist is such a superior human being....

All those different displays of human functions are just extremely interesting, I mean that's a fascinating way of manifesting your sex drive, to stand at a subway an dlet your pants down.  I think that's funny...I think it's just as interesting to see that photo of the woman who cut her wrists off, because she felt guilty about masturbating, or the Fetich-"Hanging of a Woman," I have in the show....

LP: How long does your show last?

RDB: Until the end of December...Speaking about what's primitive in Art, Sex and so on, Fetichism is a primitive Sexform.  I heard about a guy who had this thing about touching women's asses.  He couldn't keep from doing it-but his greatest disappointment was, when he touched a woman one day, she turned and smiled at him...All the other women always ignored him, that one didn't, and he could not take...

LP: How about other themes, like f. i. the ones Kandinsky, Klee or Mondrian used, abstract themes? 

RDB: What about it?

LP: Are you also interested in this kind of Art-I like to write an Art story, not only a personal fucking sex story.  How do I now get your obsession into Art-History?

RDB: Ah...Art-History...it's here on the wall.  They are my latest screenprints, "all about breasts," bound breasts, I used some rare porno-photos and they are, as you can see, in bright colors....

LP: Did you read about the latest  book by Phillip Roth: "BREAST"? 

RDB: Breast, that's great, what is it all about?

LP: As far as I got it from the review, it's the story of a man, who turns into a gigantic female breast, and the sex organ of the breast-man is the very sensitive nipple...it seems to be a kind of Kafcaesque short novel, written by the Portnoy Complaint-Million-Dollar-best-seller-writer Roth.

RDB: To me an artist is a special kind of person, he is fully aware, fully conscious, he observes...the sex thing is just fantastic, that's where the real ingenuity comes out.  Most people lead very uneventful, dull lives and don't realize how adventurous real living is-but when it comes to their sex activities, they really become fantastically imaginative, they really do amusing, weird things, just like dropping their pants in a subway stations.  The artist's goal really is amorality.  Somewhere in the future we will have Anarchy.  And in order to have Anarchy we have to have Amorality.

LP: You really believe that we will have Anarchy in the future?

RDB: Oh yes, the real artist, the creative one is a visionary and has to be amoral, and amorality leads to Anarchy....

LP: Your large paintings the tinted Oil works are all depicting freaky scenes of sexual activities, they are, I think, taken from illustrations of Books of Sex pathology, or from photos of such kind?

RDB: I got some of them from a little old man, who only had half a face.  He had his face operated, half o it had caved in.  He got wounded in WW 2, I guess.  He was a very sweet little guy and he gave me those photos for nothing-he had them for years-and some of the other photos I got in London, these are the Victorian porno-pictures, from a guy, who had them maybe for 30 or more years, and didn't know how to get rid of them....

LP: They are black and white. How do you make your colored paintings from them?

RDB: It's a complicated technique...really my secret...I use oil colors.  In my secret technique, with a piece of cotton, it's very tedious work....

LP: How much are those?

RDB: Oh, 1,000 or 1,500 dollars...at least so much, like the one of the woman how cut off her wrist, because she felt guilty of masturbating...

LP: Can you tell me a little more about your favorite philosophy: Anarchy and society. Amorality. Fetichism, Sex and human behaviorism?

RDB: You see the thing about sexual activity that interests and fascinates me, is like how-when you take an egg out of a seagull's nest-the gull doesn't lay another egg, it builds a bigger next.  All these aberrations of sexual activities that people devise are totally useless, they are frivolous, they are undirected...aren't you fascinated how people are always fucking around? ...The thing is, I have something I call the "THEORY OF PHARBLONGENCE" & the ASCETIC SCHLOMOZZLE."

LP: Is that Jewish?

RDB: It's anglicized..."PHARBLONGENCE" means TOTAL CONFUSION.

LP: Is that a word often used?

RDB: I use it all the , because I INVENTED IT!  I have to explain the whole thing'  I am a religious leader, you'll see.  I  call it "THE ASCETIC PHARLBLONGENCE SCHLMOZZLE" in my Church the FIRST NATIONAL CHURCH OF THE EXQUISTE PANIC" of which I am the founder & LEADER, the President and the saint and there I say: "all human activity is guided by the law of Pharblongence, which is totally random; we think we have intentions, but we don't, & "Schlomozzle" is the GOD we worship, and when SCHLMOZZLE accidentally invented the Universe he said : "UHPS! (or UUPS)".

LP: So you think everything in our life is nothing but a big DADAISTIC UHPS?...and maybe the end of the everything at the dawn of the BIG BANG, is UHPS triggered by Schlomozzle?...and the end is here, so to say...

RDB: No, I think we still have a few hundred years to go...UHPS...with a big pharblongence hello to all of you..

TAGS: robert delford brown, lil picard, crack-up gallery

 

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