Thursday, December 2, 2010

The 1945 San Antonio, N.M. UFO Crash
UFO Crash Remnants
December 01, 2010
Paola Harris has sent photos of the metal that witnesses (Jose Padilla/Reme Baca) reportedly pulled off the craft in the 1945 San Antonio, NM crash case. The first image shows electron microscope analysis of a panel piece pulled off by a 9 year old Jose Padilla, with possible embedded integrated circuits. The second picture shows the panel piece in a regular photo. (see interview below)

Amplify’d from

The 1945 San Antonio Crash  

The Reme Baca and Jose Padilla witness Case

By Paola Leopizzi Harris

Reme Baca and Friend in San Antonio New, Mexico

Born on the edge of Ground Zero, living in the shadow of Area 51, two little Hispanic children experienced an extraordinary event occurred? Jose Padilla, age 9 and Reme Baca, age 7 witnessed a saucer crash on Padilla land in the town San Antonio, New Mexico. They were witness to one of the most spectacular events in UFO history.


This new book entitled, Born the Edge of Ground Zero, Living in the Shadow of Area 51, will be released February 2011 and is Jose Padilla’s and Reme Baca’s detailed account of what happened in their childhood. They explain what they saw; the actual crash, the creature’s appearances, the pieces they took, the military clean up and an in-depth analysis of the significance of this case.


First printed in The Mountain Mail, Soccorro, New Mexico on November 2, 2003 by journalist Ben Moffet, the case was passed to me, journalist/researcher, Paola Harris in May 4, 2009. The desire to finally disclose the details and the kind invitation of Reme Baca, led me to fly to Gig Harbor in Washington State in the Northern part of the United States to interview witness Reme Baca and his wife, Virginia in July 2010. Consequently because he now lives in California, I interviewed Jose Padilla by telephone from the Baca house. During my two-day stay, I was able to see and photograph the piece that Jose extracted from the craft and study the detailed analysis of its composition done in Europe.


It is one of the most astounding cases I have ever covered in my career and it helps complete the puzzle of why there has been so many crash retrievals in New Mexico. As journalist Ben Moffet, who so beautifully describes the cover-up - we can begin to see where it fits in UFO history.


 “It was in this crucible of suspicion and disinterest bred by familiarity that a small contingent of the U.S. Army passed almost unnoticed through San Antonio in mid-to-late August, 1945 on a secret assignment.


Little or nothing has been printed about the mission, shrouded in the "hush-hush" atmosphere of the time. But the military detail apparently came from White Sands Proving Grounds to the east where the bomb was exploded. It was a recovery operation destined for the mesquite and greasewood desert west of Old US-85, at what is now Milepost 139, the San Antonio exit of Interstate 25.

Over the course of several days, soldiers in Army fatigues loaded the shattered remains of a flying apparatus onto a huge flatbed truck and hauled it away. That such an operation took place between about Aug. 20 and Aug. 25, 1945, there is no doubt, insist two former San Antonioans, Remigio Baca and Jose Padilla, eyewitnesses to the event. Padilla, then age 9, and Baca, 7, secretly watched much of the soldiers' recovery work from a nearby ridge.”


Thanks to the work of Ben Moffet, and now thanks to the witnesses themselves, currently in their 70’s, the world will know see that there was certain extraterrestrial interest in our discovery of the atomic bomb. It opened up a Pandora’s box in human history that cannot easily be closed. It put humanity and possibly other dimensional visitors in danger of total destruction. San Antonio was more than a crash, a sighting - an event. It was a warning that the military today is not heeding, whether it is in the US, or abroad. If we add the courageous testimony Air Force panel led by Robert Hastings and seven retired USAF officers at the Washington Press club on September 27th of 2010, then we realize the time has come to speak. If these visitors have the capacity of UFOs to either disable or shoot down our nuclear missiles, then we can see that 70 years later, they are taking action.


Ultimately, the 1945 San Antonio case presents a peaceful message, a powerful warning to the planet.

Reme Baca,7 years old

Interview With Reme Baca, Washington State

Jose Padilla in California (On the Telephone)

July 5th, 2010
P: After you saw the crash you brought people back there. And who did you bring back? You brought back who?

R: Well, not me.

P: Who brought them back?

R: What happened is that after the crash, we went home, back to the ranch. 

P: Can you tell me the date of this? The approximate date of this? We know it’s 1945.

R: 1945, August.

P: It’s in the month of August.

R: And it was like the 15th.

P: Around the 15th. That 15th of August, you know, is the Feast of the Madonna. It’s the greatest feast in Italy. Okay, never mind. It’s a major date. Okay, so it’s around the 15th, so whose dad was it that sent you, and you were how old?

R: I was age 7 and Jose was 9.  Jose’s dad Faustino had asked us a couple of days earlier, to find a cow that was ready to have a calf.

P: And you were on two separate horses.

R: Yes, we were on two separate horses.

P: So it was during the day you went? 

R: Yes.  Here’s what he told us.  You know, Faustino said, when you get a chance, I want you to go out and check that cow because it’s getting ready to calve, and we want to make sure that we get it before somebody else gets it, and puts their brand on it. And so you need to, as you get a chance, to go do that. What we were doing periodically, is that we’d get on horseback and go up and check all the fences, “riding fence” is what we called it. Check the fences - make sure they weren’t broken. If they are, you repair them, you have a small tool kit, If a post is down you prop it up and later on you come back and replace it. So we’d ride the fences, and when we were done with that, we’d go up to the top of the hills and take inventory.  Jose would look through his binoculars and count the stock.  I’d write the numbers down. Count the cows.  While twenty-five head of Cattle may not sound like much, Faustino had purchased some white face cattle from Spain, and was in the process of starting a white face herd.  They seemed to do well in that type of terrain.

P: Count the cows? Okay. No, I believe you.

R: So that’s what we’d do. And then of course in the winter when it snowed, we’d sometimes have to break up the ice in the water trough, so that the animals could eat, and transport bales of hay or alfalfa to windmill area, so the animals could eat.

P: This was during the day that you guys went?

R: Yes, this was during the day. Jose would come over on his horse and we saddled mine and we took off. My mom was aware that we’re going to go do some work on the Padilla Ranch.

Jose Pailla

P: He was 9 and you were 7.

R: Yes. We went over looking for that cow. And so while we were there, it was not abnormal in late summer, to have thunderstorms and lightning and this time was no different so we took refuge under a ledge. Then we continued on. We had dismounted because the terrain was steep and rocky and horses don’t do well on rocks, they hurt their hooves. We replaced the bridles with rope and tied them so they could graze and we continued on foot. We walked and came up to where there was a clump of mesquite bushes, creosote, or greasewood as they called in the day, pine, sage, and cactus.  As we walked towards the clump of mesquite we heard a moan and we discovered it was the cow we were looking for, and it had given birth to a calf.  This was part of the beginning of the start of a new herd called a “whiteface” herd. A red cow with a white face and white feet. Faustino had purchased a cow and a bull from Spain and was breeding them.  Whiteface was one of the cattle breeds they used in the United States for meat at that time.  So we found it and then we went down into a little area where there was a ledge.  Jose had packed a lunch, a couple of tortillas and I think a couple of apples. We sat down to eat that and the storm and rains came. We got under there so we wouldn’t get too wet. Then it just kind of sprinkled a little bit and was all over. We were getting ready to go up and take another look at the cow and see if it was eating and take a closer look at the calf.  While we were doing that, we heard this loud bang.

P: You heard the actual crash.

R: We didn’t know it was a crash at that time.  We heard this sound, like when the bomb went off. 

P: The same sound as like when the bomb went off?

R: Similar to same sound as when the bomb went off and it was still fresh in our minds. When the bomb went off Jose and his mother were up early in the morning. The bomb went off after his dad left for work. Jose’s mother looked at the flash through the crack in the door jab and as a result of the exposure, she lost sight in that eye.  According to Jose, they felt the heat wave, and the rumbling of the ground.       

P: So the sound was familiar?

R: Very familiar. They were closer to the bomb explosion than I was, my bed crashed against the wall and it bounced me out of it, my mother got up and tried to explain that it was probably that storm that that was causing all this. 

P: Going back to the actual story, you heard this sound?

R: We heard this sound and the ground shook, and so memories came back of the atomic bomb explosion.  Are they testing again or what?  So we looked around, saw smoke coming from maybe a couple of canyons down, up that way. So Jose says, “let’s go over and take a look, see what’s going on.” We started walking, and we saw a little smoke coming from that direction. As we reached the ridge, the smoke became intense.  Then we worked our way down the ridge so we could see what appeared to be a big gouge in the ground.  It looked like a road grader had been in there. We were not aware that anyone had a 100-foot wide grader, but it sure looked like a 100-foot wide blade had been here, grading about a foot deep.  We started walking up this graded road, it was pretty rough on our feet and it was warm. The bottoms of our feet felt hot.

P: And do you remember around what time it was?

R: I didn’t have a watch. Probably four or five in the afternoon, maybe later. 

P: I’m asking because you can see what you’re looking at, it’s not dark.

R: No, it’s not dark. But as we look up this graded road, there’s a lot of smoke. So we retreated to where we could get some air and take a drink from the canteen and kind of recollect our thoughts and try to understand what this is all about.  I asked Jose, “is that a plane that went down?” I’ve only seen planes in the air. We live in a small town. Don’t see many planes.  Jose says, “Don’t know, maybe somebody might be hurt and maybe we need to help them. “I said ok, okay, and so we continued trying to get closer. We could see something over on the edge of that graded gash.

P: The path that the grader left?

R: The path that the craft left. It doesn’t go just straight. It goes and then it makes a right turn, like an “L”. We could see something but you know, there’s so much dust in the air, and it’s humid from the rain and then some of that brush, that oily brush is burning so the smoke’s coming into your eyes, it’s really hard to see and make any sense of it at all.  We went back up and rested, returned, and Jose has his binoculars out and starts looking to see what it are. He says, “You know there’s something over there. Let’s see if we can get any closer.”  Again, we try to get closer and finally it starts clearing up a little. The time seems to be going by very fast. We’re looking through the binoculars and I could see the hole on the side of this object.  The object is avocado shaped. 

P: So it’s a round object like an avocado and you could see there’s a hole. How far would you say you guys were from the object?

R: I would estimate about a couple of hundred feet.

P: Oh, you did get a couple hundred feet close?

R: Yes, about a hundred feet.

P: And then you saw the inside of the hole from the couple hundred feet?

R: No, not the inside of the hole. Jose says, “look at this.” So I was looking through thee binoculars at these little creatures moving back and forth.

P: Were they moving really fast?

R: They were “like“ sliding.

P:  They were sliding?

R:  Not sliding, but more like willing themselves from one place to another-that type of sliding.  And as I’m looking at that, things began happening to my mind. 

P: Oh, really?

R: I’m seeing them and I’m feeling this crazy stuff, like I really feel sorry for them. And I really feel sorry, like they’re kids, too.

P: And you had a concern for them.  And you’re thinking, did you feel something because of the accident? 

R: Yes, I think so; I’m hearing this high-pitched sound coming from there. We didn’t know what to think.  The only high-pitched sounds we were familiar with were of Jack Rabbits when they were in pain, and also the sound that comes out of a newborn baby when it cries. 

P: I find this interesting. So you heard this same sound?

R: And so that was pretty moving to us. Then we saw these pictures in our heads.

P: You did see pictures in your head?

R: Yes, but I didn’t know what the heck they were.

P: In other words, you got a telepathic transfer from these beings - you think?

R: Yes, if that’s what it was. 

P: But you can’t remember what they were. But you remember that you got pictures.

R: I can remember what they are, I got pictures, but I didn’t know what they meant then, and I still don’t know. 

P: So they obviously knew you were there?

R: Yes, they must have known we were there.

P: Could they see you if they ever looked out?

R: I don’t know..

P: But I mean, there was a hole…if they looked up, could they see these two little boys?

R: Yes, I’m sure they could, if they could see.  

P: This was about 200 feet?

R: Yes, it was about 200 feet from us.  However, there was smoke and dust, so it was not very clear.

P: If the beings looked out and they were looking at you, you not only could see them, maybe they were transferring those images to you.  So what did you guys to, run away?

R: we looked at them and now it was starting to get dark and we had a long hike to get to the horses and back to the ranch.  But Jose wants to go in, and I don’t.

P: He wanted to go inside the ship? Jose wanted to go inside.

R: And I’m saying, Jose, “what is it? “  His response is “I don’t know.”   Okay. If you don’t know what the heck this is, I ain’t going into it.  There’s no way. “I wanna go home. I don’t want to go in. You’ll have to go by yourself.  I’m going home, I’ll meet you at the ranch.”  And he says, “Well let’s watch for a little while.   You know, maybe you’re right. I don’t know what they are. They kinda look like kids, very strange kids.” 

P: So you had a whole conversation about this?

R: Oh, yes. And so he says, well okay, let’s just watch for a little longer and then we need to get back home. Your mom’s probably worried, it’s getting late, and I sure dad’s worried….

P: Can I ask you if you and Jose had a conversation about this, about what you saw, in these years? 

R: Jose left San Antonio in 1954 and I left in 1955.  During the years we were there, yes we talked about it.  From 1955 to 2002, we had no contact.  Since 2002, we have compared notes.        

P: Have you compared notes? And does he remember things?

R: Better than I do.

P: Better than you do. Oh, good. Okay.

R: He has a photographic mind.

P: Okay. All right.

R: He started school at the age of 4.

P: Okay, that’s wonderful but we have already got a testimony. So if I were to ask you about the diameter of this thing, how big would say it was?  Did you try to compare to something or…

R: We know. We stepped it off. Remember when we went and pulled that Tesoro off, and the object had been loaded on the tractor-trailer.         

P: Yes?

R: That’s when we stepped it off.

P: So you stepped it off. What are we looking at? How many feet?

R: About twenty-five or 30 feet long. Thirty-feet long. Okay. R:  Fourteen-feet high. How do I know? Because of the rafters of a house are fourteen-feet tall

P: So you got that much information? Okay. So at what point then did you guys turn around and walk away? I mean, you were trying to figure out what to do and then what? Did you just turn around?

R: Well, we finally agreed that we ought to go home because it was getting late.

So we started off, went down and got on our horses and started off. It was getting dark then and it was pitch dark by the time we got to the ranch. And Jose’s dad was waiting for us. He was worried. So we went in and Jose told him the story about the cow and then he started telling him about the crash.And I told him what I saw and so his dad says, well, the first thing we got to do is we got to get you home. We’ll look into this in the next day or so. It probably belongs to the government, and that’s probably it. We need to maybe stay away from thereAnd so they drove me home, I left my horse there and they took care of it. They drove me home and Faustino had a long talk with my mom regarding the object that we had discovered on the Padilla ranch.  Faustino emphasized it might endanger his job, since my dad worked for the government. 

P: Oh, okay.

R: My dad worked for the Veterans Hospital in Albuquerque, and Jose’s dad worked for the Federal Refuge in development, El Bosque Del Apache near San Antonio.

P: Where were they employed before? 

R: W.P.A (Work Projects Administration) – C.C.Camps, (Civilian Conservation Corps). Conrad Hilton, who owned several businesses in San Antonio and Mr. Alliare who owned a mercantile business there also, also employed them. 

P: Before that?

R: Yes, before that.

P: In their younger days?

R: And so that was basically what happened that night. The following day, Jose came over to my house, and I went with him to his house, where we met Eddie Apodaca who was a State Policeman, and a friend of the family.  Faustino had asked him to go with us to the crash site. They rode in the state police car, and we rode in the pickup truck.  We drove as far as we could get with the vehicles, and we walked the rest of the way to the crash site.   When we got close to the crash site, looking down from the hill, we couldn’t see the object.

Photo of the panel that contained piece removed by Jose Padilla

P: What do you mean, did you get very close to the crash site? 

R: We are not talking about flat land here.  We are talking about hills, canyons, and arroyos.  Standing on top of a hill, looking downwards where we had seen the object, it was no longer visible to us, at that time. No explanation why.  We simply could not see it.  It seemed gone.  Jose says well, “I don’t know what’s going on here.” Eddy and Faustino said, “What did you say you saw?”  My response was, it’s down there, but we can’t see it.  Faustino said “ let’s walk down there and take a look.” We started walking down and then we saw it.  The object had a lot of debris over it and so I asked Faustino, “How come we couldn’t see it from up there?” His response was that he didn’t know. 

P: You’re saying it was almost invisible.

R: I almost couldn’t see it. Then we got there and they said, “Okay, you guys stay here and we’re going to go in.”

P: So, Reme, they went in. So what did they find?

R: What ever they found, they did not tell us.  What I do know is they found a complete change of attitude.  When we were coming down the hill towards the crashed object, they doubted us a lot.

P: Yes, I know, I know.

R: So they went in and we stood there, sat down and watched them. And they were in there 5 or 10 minutes and came out. They had a change of attitude, a complete change of attitude. They were almost like different people. They had seen something they’d never seen before. They came out and said, okay. Here’s the way it is. I want you guys to listen. This is very difficult. You’re under oath. You don’t tell anybody about this, not your brother, not your cousin, not your mother, not your father, that’s our business. We’ll take care of that. And the reason for this is that you can get in trouble. We want to keep you out of trouble. So we agreed to that and they gave us a really big lecture, and so we took it very serious. 

P: But did they ever tell you what they saw inside?

R: No.

P: They never described it?

R: No. They didn’t say what they saw.

P: They didn’t? But obviously they didn’t see any of the creatures because they weren’t there.

R: They weren’t concerned. Because we asked them about the creatures, where are they, because we can’t see them through that big hole. There’s no creature there. They said, “Well, you know, maybe they took off. Maybe somebody took them. Maybe.

P: Was there any evidence the Army had been there? Any?

R: Evidence?   We saw something like a broom, or rake mark, but then again, it could be some animal, insect or snake that made those marks.   

P: Because logically if the military had taken the creatures, they would also have had to show that they had been there in some way. In other words, they waited at least 24 hours before taking the craft.

R: Maybe they did show that they had been there, but we were not aware.    Well, before taking the craft?

P: The craft.

R: No, the craft itself took days to get taken out of there.

P: How many days?

R: Oh, probably, several days.  First they would bring in some road building equipment, build a gate, bring in a semi-truck with a low-boy trailer, build a frame on the trailer, bring in a crane and load the craft on to the tractor trailer.  

P: Two or three days, or more?   Did you go back just that once to that area? No, you went back to see it again. Correct?

R: We went back several times.  Jose went sometimes with and sometimes without me.  You know, we were kids. We worked that area. As kids our dad gives us a little money for doing that work, and if we didn’t, who would?  .

P: Had both of you talked about going inside yourselves? Is that why you guys were going back there?

R: Yes. And we went there the second day, we were curious.

P: Okay. You were going to go in there.

R: Then we were going in there, and we were going to go and see what we could find. We went there on a workday, before Faustino and Apodaca went with us.

It was in the afternoon, after we had gotten done with our work. 

P: Before Apodaca and Faustino went with you?

R: That’s right.

P: You went back on your own on the second day.

R: Not on our own, we were working in that area.  We checked that fence too.  We had some fences to fix and fence poles to replace. There were cattle with calves around there also

P: So what happened?

R: Finally, we got there in the late afternoon, we were on horseback and came in from a different direction looking from the opposite side of the ridge, we saw some military people picking up stuff. 

P: Okay. Well, that’s what I had just asked you before. How did you know the military was there before, you said the creatures weren’t there?

R: The military wasn’t there all the time.

P: But the creatures were gone and I was wondering, the military must have been there to take them?

R: We did not see the military take them. If they did, it was before we arrived.  But we never got to check the craft, all we got to do was go down and get some of the debris and threw it in this crevice and we tried to cover it with dirt and rocks.  After the two jeeps left, it was already getting dark and we had to get home.

P: And that’s the dig that you ultimately someday want to do.

R: Yes, that’s the one.  

P: What did that material feel like, the material that you threw into the trench? Was it like, you know, like lead or was it soft or like aluminum, or how was it? Do you have a piece of it? Was it like stone?

R: Kind of like this piece that I’m holding in my hand.

P: It was like this?

R: It was hard.  On the first day, I had gotten a piece of that aluminum foil type, and showed it to Jose.  It reminded me of the aluminum foil that came in the Philip Morris cigarettes that my mother smoked.  I took that and put it in my pocket…

P: Whatever happened to that?

R: I used it to repair the windmill cylinder.

P: So the second day basically you waited until the military went away. And you got more pieces, dragged them into the trench, but you didn’t see the beings then. 

R: Too far from the crevice and it was getting dark.  The military had been there, we saw them, but I don’t think they saw us. 

Piece removed by Jose Padilla

P: The thing was left there and then the next day Jose’s father and Apodaca went.

R: Right.

P: And you took them there. Okay. And then did you see it again? The craft?

R: Yes, it was still there.

P: I mean, you went there a fourth day, yourselves? 

R: No, no. Then after, probably the third or fourth day Jose came over to my house and we picked some chilies, green peppers, tomatoes because we had a vegetable garden and they didn’t, and we filled a couple of bags with vegetables and we took one to his house.  We went in the back door. And as we go in there was a military vehicle in front and there’s a soldier there at the screen door talking to his dad, so we go around the back and in through the kitchen to join them. Faustino says, come on in here boys.  So we joined him and he’s talking to a Sgt. Avila, and he invites him in.  Sgt. Avila says “I’m with the US Army and what I need to do is permission from you to go in and cut the fence and put in a gate because we have one of our  “experimental weather balloons” that inadvertently fell on your property.

P: He called it an weather balloon? Those words?

R: An experimental weather balloon, and so we need to recover that, so we need permission to do that. So his dad says, “Why can’t you come in through the cattle guard like everybody else does instead of cutting my fence down?” And he says, “Because the equipment that we’re going to bring in is wider than your cattle guard, it won’t fit through there. He says, “In the mean time, you have a gate that locks that up and we need to have a key so we can get in there and cut that fence and put in a gate.” He says, “We’ll put in a good gate for you. And then we need to bring in some road-building equipment, some graters and so forth and see if we can grade a road to get that truck in there to get that weather balloon out of there.” So finally Jose’s father says, “Okay,” and they both spoke mostly in Spanish. He says, “Okay, go ahead and do that.” He says, “Keep an eye on the place and make sure nobody goes there because you know, this is really important, you know, we don’t let anybody know about it.” We don’t want to cause any trouble for anybody, and so try and keep an eye on it, so nobody that hasn’t any business going there, doesn’t go there. And so, Faustino say, “Okay”, and Sgt. Avila left and that’s when they officially began the process of preparing the area to take the object away.  The recovery wasn’t like what we read in UFO books, people in purple uniforms dropping in from helicopters, everything sanitized. Nothing like that. 

P: And they weren’t wearing protective clothing?

R: Yes they were wearing fatigues. They put up a tent, played a radio, western music. 

P: You were watching them, then?

R: Yes, we were watching them, as often as we could, sometimes in the morning, and evening. It was our job to check and maintain the fences, keep track of the herd, including horses. We could hear the radio music going. There was one guy there at the tent, and two or three working, picking up the debris.  They bring in this tractor-trailer, they have a welder, acetylene welder, and they build this rack so they can get the craft on it because it’s got to go on sideways. Then we figured out they were doing that because they had to go under the overpass at a forty-five degree angle in order to clear it.

P: Did they tie it up or put a tarp over it?

R: Yes, put a tarp on it.

P: And tied it up.

R: These soldiers were kids, and they went to the Owl bar and café a lot.

P: Was that the Owl Cafe?

R: The Owl Bar and Café. And so the Owl Bar and Café was run by Estanislado Miera.  In the parking lot, they had a basketball hoop, where we played. They had what they called a Fountain where they sold ice cream and shakes, food.  They also had a jukebox. So that’s where the soldiers went to socialize.  And so we would go there and play hoops and then sometimes Estanislado would come out and ask us to help him.  Sometimes we would help grind up meat for hamburgers, wash dishes, clean the place up. 

P: And so these guys went there?

R: And yes, that’s where they went for lunch, that’s where they went for dinner.

P: And you saw them pick up debris at the crash site? 

R: Yes

P: They left the ship. And explain to me how you got this metal.

R: On the final day when they brought in a small crane, about I imagine a fifteen to twenty foot crane and they dragged the craft onto the tractor-trailer. 

P: Did they ever see you?

R: I don’t know if they ever did, or cared. 

P: In other words, you were like part of the scenery.

R: Well, you know, they weren’t looking for us, and there was vegetation on the side of the hills R:  and we weren’t very tall, so it was easy for us to hide.

P: But you didn’t go and talk to them or anything.

R: Oh, we would sometimes talk to them at the café, but not much, because we didn’t have anything in common. The work they were doing didn’t seem all that important to them.  It did not seem to be a great deal to them.  We don’t believe anyone was aware of how important this object might have been, certainly not us.

Years later, one of the soldiers married Jose’s cousin. 

P: You just said one of them married Jose’s cousin and the obvious question everybody would have would be did this military man who married Jose’s cousin ever talk about this incident?

R: With Jose’s dad.

P: With Jose’s dad, this military guy did. Do you remember what was said?

R: I was not there.  But Jose would know. It is my understanding that throughout the years, he became more unconvinced that it was a Weather balloon.

P: That’s what he said? He did not think it was a weather balloon.  But he never went one step further and said what was inside?

R: Don’t believe he knew. He was just doing his job, picking up the debris, looking forward to completing his assignment and going home.  The war had ended, and a lot of the soldiers had been restricted near the base near Trinity site for the last 90 days

P: He didn’t know. So his job was just to do the recovery. But he thought it was not a Weather balloon. Okay. So, anyway, you guys were at the fountain and then what happens?

R: We’d go there, buy a coke, and listen to the music.  It seemed that the guys were not even aware that we existed. They were predictable. We pretty well had it figured out, and on the last day, Jose came and got me and we went to the site, sitting in the brush where they can’t see us.  We watch them drive the truck outside the gate and they got the tarp tied up nice and neat.  Jose said, “I think they are going to take it tonight.” I said, “Yea, how about a souvenir?

P: And you said that?

R: Yes, during the war we lost so many relatives that it was not unusual to have something to remember them by when we said our prayers. Because when they died in the war they never came back. They brought a lead coffin and a couple of guards with it and they buried them. Jose say’s “Let’s head down and wait a little while until they leave and then we’ll go.” We waited for a while and then everybody took off. They had these military pickups and they took off. So we know where they’re going, they’d be gone for a while. We worked our way up there and where the crevice was, they had run the grater through it, so nobody would even know that a crevice existed. Then we worked our way outside the fence, towards the back of the truck and stepped it off. If you made a big enough step it was three feet. Maybe we were off a few feet, but that’s the measurements we had.  Twenty-five to thirty long and about fourteen-feet tall.  And then we looked at the underneath part of the craft, because we had not seen this part of it, it was partly under ground.  So now we get to see the whole thing. Boy, this thing is a monster; it’s big. Now we can see the bottom. And in the bottom it’s got like three little indentations, little grooves under there, on each side.

P: Well, maybe they were for the landing pad. Maybe some kind of feet came out of it.

R:  Could be. And so Jose pulls part of the tarp off, exposing the gash on the side of the craft, while I hold the tarp open.  Jose climbs into the gash. 

P: Inside the hole?

R: Inside the hole.

P: He went inside the hole? 

R: Yes, and I was partially in, holding the tarp letting the light in. First, there’s nothing hardly in there.

P: But he could see the shape of it? Like if there were any rooms? Was it smooth all the way around. Were there any panels? If there were, try to explain it to me.

R: Jose said there were like ridges every so many feet

P: Did he see any panels, like control panels?  

R: No. He didn’t see like a big panel. We were talking maybe about two and one half-foot panel.

P: Was it attached to the wall, this panel?

R: To the bulkhead, the rear wall, maybe?

P: This was a panel which is inside, which is you said was on the bulkhead. But it’s against the wall, this panel. It’s attached to the bulkhead. 

R: Yes, to the bulkhead.

P: Okay.

R: What would be the rear wall to us.

P: So how fast could he pull that thing off? I mean, did he pull it off?

R: He tried to jerk it off and he couldn’t so then he went and got a cheater bar from the front of tractor-trailer. Something like a crow bar, it’s called a cheater bar in the trucking industry. It’s used for testing the tightness of the chains holding the load down on the tractor-trailer. 

P: You described the pins and what were they like?

R: Yes, a one-way fastener. They go in one way and they can’t come out. They were serrated fasteners that were inside the holes, and that’s what was holding this

bracket-type piece on the panel that was located on the bulkhead (rear wall.)The pins were yellow.

P: The pins were like yellow? That was my next question. What kind of color did you have? What kind of colors are we dealing with?

R: Yellow. The pins were yellow. Silvery colored strands of what I would compare to angel hair. No seats or anything, nothing. It must have been cleaned out, or maybe there weren’t any.  Couldn’t see any instruments, like gages, clocks, steering wheel, brake pedals, nothing like that.

Paola Harris with Reme Baca in Washington State

--Part 2 coming soon.

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